This is cross-posted to the forums.
We’ll be featuring guests for the remainder of the week, but I’m appropriating my Monday slot for a discussion on the future of Infinite Summer.
the sub-14 E.T.A.s historically have a kind of Tunnel Club. Like many small boys’ clubs, the Tunnel Club’s unifying raison d’etre is kind of vague. Tunnel Club activities mostly involve congregating informally in the better-lit main tunnels and hanging out and catching each other in lies about their lives and careers before E.T.A., and recapitulating the most recent Eschaton (usually only about five a term); and the Club’s only formal activity is sitting around with a yellowed copy of Robert’s Rules endlessly refining and amending the rules for who can and can’t join the Tunnel Club.
Like The Tunnel Club, Infinite Summer’s raison d’etre is kind of vague. Well, not yet. But it will be in a month, after we’ve finished reading Infinite Jest.
The question of what would happen to Infinite Summer come autumn was one that I was frequently asked in interviews. And was always very coy in my responses so as not to tip my hand w/r/t the Master Plan … or, rather, the fact that I had no plan, Master or otherwise. The idea of transitioning the site into a perpetual online book club thingamaroo certainly occurred to me, but the amount of work the project entailed (at least until recently) prevented me from mapping out what such a future would look like.
It’s decision time now, though (it takes at least a month to line up Guides, guests, and so forth). And while I continue to have no solid plan, I am slowly tumbling to the realization that I am going to continue the site, at least for a while.
Right now I’m trying to figure out what direction to go after IJ. I am well aware that Infinite Jest is a unique artifact, and that Infinite Summer may implode without it at the core. That said, it seems to me there are a few distinct paths the site could take from here:
- Focus on the novels folks “have always meant to read”: That would be a mix of the classics (Moby Dick, Ulysses, The Great Gatsby) and modern stuff (The Kite Runner, Beloved, etc.).
- Do the postmoderns, those that stimulate and reward discussion: Labyrinths, House of Leaves,The New York Trilogy–pretty much anything on this list.
- Keep the site DFW oriented: I recently learned that DFW taught a contemporary fiction course at Illinois State, in which the syllabus was books that he himself had trouble reading. Like me and I.S., he figured that imposing deadlines on himself would be a good way to trick himself into finishing them. Novels included JR by Gaddis, Ratner’s Star by Delillo, Blood Meridian by McCarthy, etc. In addition we could do other novels that Wallace expressed admiration for (e.g., Dune & The Screwtape Letters).
- Pick books based solely on their conduciveness to catchphrases: Let’s face it: 65% of Infinite Summer’s success is attributable to the phrase “Infinite Summer” itself. Going forward we’ll only select books that lend themselves to catchy title + season project names, e.g., Autumn 2009: “Things Fall Apart!”, Winter 2009: “Snowlita!”; Spring 2010: “From Here to E-vernal Equinoxy!”; and so forth
A mix of these themes would probably be best; perhaps a huge, postmodern opus every six months, and shorter, more conventional novels in between. Right now I am leaning toward 2666 for winter and Gravity’s Rainbow next summer (or The Pale King, depending on publication date). I would also love to tackle The Recognition and Underworld, devote a season to the Lord of the Rings trilogy, and maybe have Dystopiathon (think 1984, Brave New World, and Clockwork Orange). For shorter works, The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao and Housekeeping are at the top of my list (I have a literal list). And as a post Jest palate cleanser, I am tempted to devote October to Dracula, to conclude on Halloween Day.
But as much as Infinite Summer is about literature, it is also about community. And we’d love to get your input on the website’s future, in either the comments or the forums. We’d love for you to join The Tunnel Club and help us draft our very own version of Robert’s Rules.
And thank you for your continued participation–I hope the Infinite Summer experience has been as wonderful and engrossing for you as it has been for all of us.
I’m definitely in.
Here’s one from the “Postmodern Classics” list that Matthew linked to in his article that I feel ought to be read and discussed:
V. Nabokov’s “Pale Fire.”
It has end notes, and makes phenomenal, interesting, funny use of them — far better than DFW does in IJ with his endnotes (and I am a HUGE DFW fan, but put to better use is put to better use). It has Shakespeare allusions. It’s wickedly funny. It has a batshit crazy narrator. It’s plot concerns a creative genius whose untimely death wreaks all manner of havoc.
“Pale Fire” is also arguably V. Nabokov’s best work (e.g., V.N.’s son Dmitri likes it the best).
Aside from that subjective plug, I haven’t seen one book recommendation yet that I wouldn’t be game to take on.
I have loved this forum, and would probably have grieved its disappearance. I’m very happy to see that it’s moving forward.
Also, for what it’s worth, I wouldn’t mind paying a nominal membership fee. Even $5 or $10 a member would probably go a long way to covering costs. Also, if we have enough members, I should we could get discounts on bulk book purchases, etc.
I’m sorry for writing “also” so much.
Ditto on Pale Fire. It would be a perfect book to read in this setting!
Wow! I thought I was alone in calling Pale Fire my favorite of Nabokov’s many favoriteable works. One of the many reasons I love Infinite Summer is revelations like this.
I love the idea of Infinite Summer continuing… infinitely. I have doubts I would’ve finished IJ without the help of all these smart, funny, thoughtful readers struggling along with me. And the struggle is what’s really key here; it’s easy to find sites by folks that are already in love with IJ, and if you don’t fall in love, you can just decide those people must be insane. But here at IS, even the guides struggled, some of them never having read the book before, and I think that made the whole endeavor more exciting and more inclusive.
Okay but so I think IS’s future books should be:
1. Both critically and popularly acclaimed.
2. Notoriously hard to finish, due to their length, their complexity, or some combination of the two.
3. Rarely taught in USA high schools.
4. Fun.
I think Infinite Jest meets these requirements, and so do a truckload of other incredible books moldering on our shelves. Notice that postmodernism is NOT one of my requirements; there are complex, enjoyable, hard-to-finish novels from all over literature’s map.
And, again, bravo — you have built a beautiful thing here.
I think you should wait at least 5 years before doing a 2666 winter… personally, I’m just pretty sick of hearing about it. Also: it’s just not that good of book.
IJ has this fun thing about it where everyone who hasn’t read it goes in with this wary skepticism, and then by the end is totally converted. But for 2666 I had just the opposite experience–it’s splendidly written, but by the end I was wondering what was the point?
Ulysses Winter sounds better to me. Pale Fire could also be good. Gravity’s Rainbow would rule hard.
Recognitions would be sweet, too, but honestly is anyone gonna show up for that?
I’m with you on 2666. I think it’s got a lot of the postmodern writerly brilliance of IJ, but without the soul, without this wonderful personality underneath it all, trying to get a difficult concept through your thick skull. I’m sure Infinite Jest isn’t the only book that has all that, but I’m not sure 2666 fills the bill.
I am so in.
I have been totally delighted by Infinite Summer. I’ve always been bored by book clubs and even some other real-world books discussions. And yet, at least these were places where I could get people together to talk about books, any books, and that is surprisingly hard to do. (And even if you get people to talk about books, good luck reaching any depth in the discussion. They always seem to turn into a game of “well, if you liked that, you’ll love this.”)
And yet, Infinite Summer is this strange mix of the intellectual discussion one might get in a college class and the honesty of a book club. I had been hoping it might have a future beyond this summer.
As for books, I think the “books that stimulate and reward discussion” is the way to go, but they need not all be postmodern. (Though, as I think of books that would lend themselves, I think Calvino and Murakami, so maybe postmodern isn’t too far off.)
I agree that the main criterion for choosing a book should simply be books that can lead to good discussion. I’m kind of turned off by all the Robert’s Rules saying that the books should have critical acclaim, but yet not be canonized, but also fun to read, and also be postmodern, u.s.w.
For example, I’d like to see an “IS” with some of the works of Arno Schmidt, a brilliant author hardly known outside of Germany. But I also know that he wouldn’t be chosen for that exact reason. It’d be nice to do this with a relatively unknown book, or a book about which not much has been written.
u.s.w.? und so weiter? Are you German? If so, Wilkommen! :^)
Absolutely in! My preference would be the big, intimidating, hard to finish, etc., and not necessarily PoMo. There are several that I’ve either tried and couldn’t finish (Gravity’s Rainbow), or just never attempted (Ulysses) that I would really love to do in this format. I’m game for 2666, Pale Fire, Brothers Karamazov and certainly think we have to do The Pale King when it’s published. I like the idea of somehow tying the choices into DFW, but don’t need to read just his works. IS has convinced me to read everything he’s written (been reading some essays and This is Water as we’ve moved through IJ).
I’m in the camp of not including the smaller books in between, I have a sense that a lot of us here are pretty voracious readers and will tend to be picking up smaller ones along the way anyway. Of course, if it does end up going that way we can always pick and choose which ones we get involved with.
And but so, having given my 2 cents, I have to agree with others – no democracy! Art by committee just won’t work. I think you can take all of the suggestions here and in the couple of forum threads that have discussed this and look at what it’s possible for you to do, Matthew et al. You’ve done a fantastic job with this so far!
I’m also all for pitching in a few bucks to buy the guides a beer for playing along. I’ve truly appreciated their comments and really like that they have also struggled. That might be one of the reasons they encourage us so much – we can Identify!
I think continuing the Web site continuously is a great idea, but I would change the format a bit. During the year, the site could host book discussions, for those who are interested, about the types of books that have been mentioned elsewhere (Pale Fire, etc.), but once summer comes back, introduce an Infinite Jest-type book with schedules and commentators, the whole production. I for one have many books on my reading queue that I’ve put off since starting IJ, and I’d want to get to those before I embark on another season-long excursion.
I think there’s something special to the idea that you could visit the site year-round and get something out of it, but once a year, for three months, is when it really cranks up and helps you read those doorstops that have been intimidating you for years.
For the record, I didn’t get much at all out of The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao. Just didn’t seem very heady. Could be that I’m the one who wasn’t heady enough. It was short, so I didn’t regret spending the time on it, but my feeling after reading it was that if it had been too much longer, I might have regretted it.
In keeping with the origin of this site and IJ, I would add news books based on the following 3 criteria:
1) a book that generates a lot of discussion
2) a book that seems daunting (let’s stay challenged here!)
3) a book that ties in to the season/month it is being read
If a book falls into all 3 categories, then it becomes a contender. Maybe you pick 3-4 books and let us vote on it?
I would also be willing to pay a small fee to keep this site going. Excellent job. Just finished IJ for the first time and looking very forward to the next challenge!!
Yes.
My first choice would be the post-modern focus you offered. I read 2666 earlier this year and would have enjoyed it so much more with a community like this for discussion. 2nd choice: Ongoing David Foster Wallace focus, including his reading list.
It would be nice to read something on DFW’s syllabus, to keep him somehow connected to the project. They’re mainly short stories though, so it may not be doable: http://alasophia.blogspot.com/2008/09/david-foster-wallaces-syllabus.html
Barthelme’s syllabus might be more appropriate: http://www.believermag.com/issues/200310/?read=barthelme_syllabus
I would really like it if you’d keep the project going. I know I criticized the level of committment of some of the guides before, but I’m really incredibly grateful that you set up this site and motivated me to read IJ. It was such a perfect, beautiful way to read the book – how appropriate that a new community was created around a book that encourages stepping outside of yourself and connecting with other people.
My top book choices would be Ulysses, Moby Dick, 2666, Brothers Karamazov, Pale Fire, or Swann’s Way.
Ooh, Swann’s Way. I’ve wanted to read that for years. But talk about daunting …
My vote would be: Gravity’s Rainbow (or Mason & Dixon), JR (or The Recognitions), maybe Eco’s Foucault’s Pendulum, maybe Absalom,Absalom! or House of Leaves or Ulysses. All, like Infinite Jest, I’ve read before but would gladly do as part of a group. I so much more appreciate IJ and I think the same magic would work for the others.
I think the format fits best with long hard things, things that are, or at least have the reputation of being, hard to read. I think the 10-11 pages a day rate is perfect. You can still have a life, or if you don’t have a TV, read other things at the same time. The format is perfect because it provides encouragement and explanations when you need them most.
Pale Fire, which I read this summer too, is clever and fun, but it is (relatively) short.
I’m grateful to those who put this together and shepherded us through. I’m sure it is much more work than we participants appreciate.
I would love the support of a group to get through Gravity’s Rainbow – I tried to read it but got so confused I finally gave up. Although I gave it away so I would have to buy another copy.
I’d also love to read Focault’s Pendulum, but because I’ve read it multiple times (once every couple of years) and would really like to see what some of the smart people here think about it.
My suggestions would be to stay away from the current best sellers and go with less trendy books, ones that have shown some staying power.
My vote is for a mix of “Postmodern Classics” and DFW oriented. Great ideas.
I bet if somebody did this for Laura Warholic, it’d make Theroux really really happy and he’d probably even participate!
Count me in. I like the notion of leaving the site named “Infinite Summer” — summer all year long, all the time = time to read books otherwise left unopened.
I also like the notion of keeping the focus on books loosely associated with DFW. Very loosely, perhaps. From “Red Dragon” to DFW’s own work.
My enthusiasm is fueled by my appreciation for this site. I have owned IJ almost since it came out, and like so many others I’ve tried to read it several times. Without this site — and, of course, the fine people who gather here — there’s no way I would now be closing in on the end of the book. I would have missed one of the best reading experiences of my life.
More than that, though, the Infinite Summer experience has helped get me back into reading. I’m embarrassed to admit this, but without a kick in the pants I had let my reading drift toward books for that fit modern readers’ crabbed attention spans. I owe a great debt of gratitude to Inf Sum for reminding me just how much there is to be gleaned from books like IJ.
And so but … thanks!
PS — Bolano as well — I keep reading that “The Savage Detectives,” his first novel, would be a better one to start with than 2666, but I’m up for either of them.
Also, the British novelist/ journalist Will Self is doing wonderful things in keeping the French symbolism movement of the 60s alive. “The Book of Dave” is on my list for many obvious reasons.
Maybe Vollmann’s The Imperial? I know it’s brand new, but it’s tome-like just like Infinite Jest and Vollmann is great.
Yes yes. Both Inherent Vice and Imperial start w/ I and so does IJ…then we’ll move onto K…as in Karamazov, The Brothers
:•D
all of you…thx for restoring my faith in a worldwide reading community
Count me in for the Tunnel Club. I like the suggestion to keep it Infinite Summer for the never-ending summer approach. I have love every moment of reading IJ with everyone here and becoming acquaites with such an amazing piece of work. I trust all of your guys’ taste, so I’ll jump into anything that’s put on the list. I’ll even re-read Dracula with you, Matthew! Thanks to all of you who have put time and effort into making this such a great project.
…..or, how about this…..the next book picked is “loosely” based somehow on the current book we are reading. For example, my copy of IJ has an introduction to Dave Eggers. Maybe the next book is Egger’s new book – Zeitoun. As the book list grows over the months and years, it can all be traced back to what started it all – Infinite Jest.
Fantastic idea!
I’ve heard “Imperial” and “Zeitoun” recommended by a few people; can I make the motion that we not read non-fiction, even of the creative sort? There’s something magical about the way FICTION can tell truth that I think would be sad to lose. Besides, both authors have fine fiction that works just as well: “Europe Central” and “What is the What.”
What are the plans for Infinite Summer itself? Will it be archived on the web so that others my follow the guides and discussions whatever the season for eons into the interlaced future? The depth of this experience would be a shame to lose as one time gig. As the advocate for IJ that I think I am becoming, I’d love to direct future readers to these pages.
I’ve got my heart set on Gravity’s Rainbow after seeing the Twitter re: editorialass.com. Even if Infinite Summer doesn’t match with something I’m willing to devote to at the moment, I like the idea that I can drop in and always start something hard and have a great support group for finishing.
Hi all. I was roped into IS by a friend from New York, diverting me from making 2666 my summer project. I then roped in my son, and the 3 of us had our own Infinitesimal Summer, culminating (well, sort of) with an in-person book group in NYC 2 weeks ago. The experience of having different posts and perspectives from the IS site — and especially links to other DFW materials (interviews, syllabi, articles, laundry lists) transformed the reading process for me. I am Addicted.
Coincidentally, I mentioned to my son several weeks ago how much I wished I had such a virtual support group when I read Gravity’s Rainbow, which took me 10 years and 2 tries to finish. He and I agreed to try an Infinitesimal Summer approach to Pynchon’s magnum opus, but we’re putting that on hold for the school year.
In the meantime, count me in too. Let’s keep Infinite Summer infinite. If I might suggest another infinite target, one of our posters mentioned teaching a course on 5 tomes, including IJ. I had previously read 3 of them (including Gravity’s Rainbow), was now reading IJ, but had never even heard of the fifth: Cryptonomicon, by Neal Stephenson. I immediately put it in my Supposedly Fun Things list for the future. Turns out my NY friend (thank you Char!) knows the author, and has an as-yet-unread copy.
We’re in; how about you all?
Keep Coming Back!!
P.S.: I can’t thank you all enough for your insights. I’ve never gotten so much out of a book before.
P.P.S.: Was the allusion to “Endless Summer” intentional?
One thing that Cryptonomicon (and the Baroque Cycle) share with IJ is that they are at the same time highly referential, but not dependent upon chasing the references to enjoy the story, which might be a good criteria for a book that would work in this “IS” sorta context where the guides and other posters enhance your otherwise independent ability to enjoy the experience with their specialized knowledge or quirky takes rather tha(as opposed to some books (Ulysses?) where you kinda just gotta hope you find the teachers’ explanations illuminating as you gasp and grasp page by page for comprehension). Some of the referential stuff is historical but didn’t make me feel like an idiot for not being particularly knowledgeable about most of the key history.* Some of the referential stuff is theoretical, but ditto** Sometimes this is because there are entertaining explanations built into the text in ingenious ways, and sometimes this is because the text seems to work both if you are hardcore into understanding the history or the theories and if you are into just getting the jist and flowing with the story.***
*Crypt. is largely set in WWII, and in some off-the-beaten-path parts of the real WWII history (Phillipines, Codebreaking research in England, etc) and the B.C. is set in Restoration England/the very early pre/proto-Enlightenment world, which usually gets gets short shrift in favor of, say, Elizabethan times nearly a century earlier or the high Enlightenment (and American Revolutionary period) nearly a century later.
**The theory ranges from math stuff to code stuff to (pretty much across all the books) monetary theory, not to mention computer and political theory.
***Stephenson is kinda similar to DFW in adopting an odd take on narration and character speech, which in his case involves a lot of gleeful mixing of period and anachronistic language. He also seems to get a lot of stick (again, kinda like DFW) for some of his extended riffs or passages explaining some odd historical or theoretical or scientific minutia, which prompt some to cry “get an editor,” but which, I think, are more often than not so entertaining in their own right that I wouldn’t cut a word.
Someone had mentioned that Wallace wrote a lot of his stuff by hand, including Infinite Jest. If that’s true, that makes something else that he and Neal Stephenson had in common. (They also both found great ways to talk about math.) I would love to reread Cryptonomicon and/or read (for the first time) the Baroque Cycle. Comparatively, it’s an easier read, too.
I have enjoyed Infinite Summer immensely, actually finished recently and looking forward to another challenge. I too would be glad to kick in for a membership fee. Not having read most of the books discussed in the comments, I defer to your judgment.
Why not do the Wallace Top Ten list? It might just be better than you think.
1. The Screwtape Letters – C.S. Lewis
2. The Stand – Stephen King
3. Red Dragon – Thomas Harris
4. The Thin Red Line – James Jones
5. Fear of Flying – Erica Jong
6. The Silence of the Lambs – Thomas Harris
7. Stranger in a Strange Land – Robert A. Heinlein
8. Fuzz – Ed McBain
9. Alligator – Shelley Katz
10. The Sum of All Fears – Tom Clancy
actually kind of a tremendous idea — for any of us, there are pretty definitely books on there that go out of our comfort zone (not so much our comfort zone of ideas so much as of the sort of stuff we commit to following through on reading. I’ve read about a third of that list, have seen movies of another third, and think I know what is going on in the other third, just by cultural osmosis — wonder what it would take to make me confront whether what I think I know is in those books is really in them. Could have different “guides” who actually had a preexisting knowledge of or affection for the different genres/backgrounds for each of those books (Someone who knew more about C.S. Lewis’ place in lit/religious studies than Narnia, someone who knew about the military stuff Clancy dives into, or who could tease out unexpected stylistic or thematic connections between several of the books).
This has been a fantastic experience! I’m in for the Tunnel Club! When do you expect to have a decision on the book? Looking forward is part of the fun!
[…] two. Should Matthew over at Infinite Summer consider adding some poetry to the mix for the ongoing reading program he’s proposed? If so, do you have any recommendations? Can you name a poet (or particular […]
Not to get too meta, but as someone who is behind on the Infinite Summer project by about four weeks (always running late), and simultaneously reading Infinite Jest and 2666 (one at each of the locations I sleep at), I think the idea of letting things devolve in a “nature-takes-it’s-own-course” way until the Pale King is released, and we can all meet here again to start anew (as it were)is too perfect to try to pass up. I will (of course) be 4 weeks late again, but that’s my business.
Also, I think books/novels that deal in sideways (for lack of a better word) ways of learning stuff would be optimal, but not mandated. Like, one of my favorites ever is Moby Dick, and it has nothing to do with calling anyone Ishmael or even great white whales, but much more the minutiae of whaling as a profession/lifeblood…
Maybe it’s just me…
But as someone who has no idea about the end of IJ I would love to keep (and by I, I mean you) some sort of random “hey-it’s-all-about-the-journey-not-the-destination” meeting place for this to all happen.
I know nothing about bandwidths/internets, and I’m sure I’m just imposing on you, but as I’ve been making my way through this book, I have found this location/website invaluable, and I thank you for that…
…and I can say with the utmost certainty that 2666 would be a formidable Sierpinski gasket-style alternate track.
Imagine watching next summer’s Wimbledon, and reading 2666/IJ/Pale King as one all-encompassing goof-off, jumping back and forth, maybe confusing the text from one with the text from another…
Simultaneously squeezing a tennis ball in your hand, of course.
A boy can dream.
in re: the jouney/not-destination of it all, that is.
Anyway…
Again, even if not, and I’m just crazy (which is totally meta), thanks.
I’d vote for another lengthy modern classic over the winter (I just read 2666 this spring so not that one please)
The Gargantuan and Infinite Tunnel Club
I like this and I want in.
yes please count me in.
hi! can we please revisit this? is there going to be a 2666 club in january?
If not here, maybe as a group read on the Bolano Googl Group. See the discussion of starting in January link here
Thanks. Scott! I have just joined the Bolano group, and I am looking forward to reading interesting and enlightening comments for this new project. I hope many of the IS group will join; I miss reading the discussions.
thank you scott!!