Infinite Summer

Formed in the summer of 2009 to read David Foster Wallace's masterwork "Infinite Jest".
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The Inficratic Oath: first, post no spoilers. Limit your I.J. discussion to only those events that take place on or before the page 981 (100%).



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 Post subject: Re: P.G.O.A.T.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 59
Location: Orlando, FL
Roxanne wrote:
I don't recall any passages where the person with the veil consciously removes it or does anything with it. Or even acknowledges it. The veils are seen by the observer or the person they are 'interfacing' with somehow.

This rang a bell for me and I was pretty sure the veil had physicality. I went back through the section and when Joelle arrives at Molly's party (p.228) Molly secures it for her while she takes off her poncho then lifts the corners to kiss her cheeks. Then, given your comment, I thought well, it's still not Joelle doing anything with the veil so I looked further. Once she goes into the bathroom (p.235) "Joelle has lifted her veil back to cover her skull like a bride."
Joan


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 Post subject: Re: P.G.O.A.T.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:08 am 
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Posts: 7
Location: Maryland
dioramaorama wrote:
I also got the feeling she may have been molested by her dad - the description of the two of them at the movie theatre was kind of suspicious. maybe that has something to do with it.


I also got the same feeling that Joelle was molseted by her father. What reinforced this hypothesis for me was on page 201, when "exotic new facts" about halfway houses are described, it is mentioned that "over 60% of all persons arrested for drug and alcohol-related offenses report being sexually abused as children, with 2/3rds of the remaining 40% reporting they cannot remember their childhoods in sufficent detail to report one way or the other on abuse."
Lo, in n.134, we discover that she's been admitted into Ennet House. Maybe there is a connection between her drug abuse and a childhood trauma, too.

I lean more toward the "too pretty" opinion for why she wears her veil and think that her father's creepy relationship with her may have just been the very beginning of her difficulties being a P.G.O.A.T. I think that her extreme beauty is a hindrance to her existence because she was unable to have a normal relationship even with her own father. Just a thought...


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 Post subject: Re: P.G.O.A.T.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:22 am 
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Posts: 91
where have you seen evidence of a veil suddenly not being there on Joelle or someone else?


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 Post subject: Re: P.G.O.A.T.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:50 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:11 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Dayton, OH, USA
JRLSberro wrote:
Roxanne wrote:
I don't recall any passages where the person with the veil consciously removes it or does anything with it. Or even acknowledges it. The veils are seen by the observer or the person they are 'interfacing' with somehow.

This rang a bell for me and I was pretty sure the veil had physicality. I went back through the section and when Joelle arrives at Molly's party (p.228) Molly secures it for her while she takes off her poncho then lifts the corners to kiss her cheeks. Then, given your comment, I thought well, it's still not Joelle doing anything with the veil so I looked further. Once she goes into the bathroom (p.235) "Joelle has lifted her veil back to cover her skull like a bride."
Joan


Also, during the whole section describing Joelle's walk to Molly Notkin's apartment, which is from Joelle's POV, the veil is mentioned and it's explicitly stated that the veil gets damp from the drizzle, etc. We are also told (a couple different times) that the veil is made of linen, that Joelle has singed it in the past while smoking, and that she uses the veil as a sort of makeshift potholder while she's cooking up Too Much Fun.

I don't recall reading anything that would lead me to assume the veil was not a literal, physical veil.


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 Post subject: Re: P.G.O.A.T.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:40 am 
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Location: Montreal, Quebec
Joelle is also the star of the film Infinite Jest, which seems to be the Entertainment. Perhaps the film is so compelling to watch because it shows Joelle's face?


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 Post subject: Re: P.G.O.A.T.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:48 am
Posts: 61
Ah the film....... perhaps the Entertainment is so compelling because it shows the many faces of Joelle?


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 Post subject: Re: P.G.O.A.T.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:08 am
Posts: 48
If we assume that Joelle is anything like the Odalesque (or that she has become the other extreme--Medusa-like from acid-scarring, propeller-blades, or anything other hinted-at disfigurement), then putting her face (filmed with a special James O. Incandenza-invented lens) at the center of a film might indeed suck people in, destroying their minds (which is a very special sort of de-mapping). But all this is still just wild speculation.


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 Post subject: Re: P.G.O.A.T.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:48 am
Posts: 61
I'm rereading IJ and promise no spoilers. Joelle is far more interesting in this reading than the first and the reread gives rise to questions about her that were never considered the first time through. I've just completed the section where she first meets Orin after his conversion to football (reading somewhat out of order but what the heck... the novel's non-linear anyway) and now agree even more strongly that her father was indeed her Personal Daddy.

One thing I missed the first time through was that when she met Orin she was a "maiden" due to the fact that no one ever summoned the courage to approach her due to her intimidating beauty so perhaps the veil is not hiding a disfigurement but perhaps is a means to keep that beauty from repelling people?

I've actually forgotten enough detail that it's no longer possible to remember how her story unfolds so it will be entertaining to see it develop and this thread along with it.


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 Post subject: Re: P.G.O.A.T.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:34 am
Posts: 9
Perhaps I'm reaching here, but on p.474 Marathe says:
Quote:
...Canadians also, we would choose dying for this, the total pleasure of a passive goat.
Passive goat / P.G.O.A.T; dying for total pleasure / suicide via Too Much Fun?

Hmmm...


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 Post subject: Re: P.G.O.A.T.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:16 pm
Posts: 86
Location: North Dakota
oh I like that, fivestring.


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