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| Hamlet similarities http://infinitesummer.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=73 |
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| Author: | Perpetua [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hamlet similarities |
I think we look for similarities because we desire a framework to help us through. There's a lot of "hype" surrounding IJ, including hype of the "ohmygodit'ssohardihopeyoumakeitpastpage200!!!!!" variety. So being able to think of the novel in the context of the play is useful, I think, especially if you start feeling bogged down or lost. |
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| Author: | CodyVanDer [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hamlet similarities |
Alas, poor readers! I don't buy it. Sure, there are similarities. When you write a 1079 page book designed to press people to think as well as to comment on the transience of life and the human condition, surely there will be some similarities between your work and one of Shakespeare's plays. I think there probably isn't a book worth reading that doesn't touch on at least ONE of Shakespeare's works. That's part of what is so awesome about Shakespeare... Everybody can appreciate them because the themes are universal. I remember cringing when I found out I had to read "Romeo and Juliet" in school when I was 12. As it turns out, there is quite a bit a 12-year-old can take from it. I think the book that is more like Hamlet that IJ is the New Testament. Father was a "king"? Check. Father is a ghost? Check. (Sorry. Couldn't resist.) Current "father" not really his father? Check. Secret plots to murder the protagonist? Uh, check. Discussing life, death and the possibility of life after death? Check. Banished? Check. (Hamlet to England, Jesus for a few days into heaven [or just the tomb, whichever way you see it.].) Dead bodies? Check. (True, Jesus brought them back to life...) Protagonist frequently misunderstood by other people? Check. Measured responses to slights, real or perceived? Check. Surely there are things that IJ and Hamlet have in common, but I think the similarities are completely overstated. It's not a coincidence that the first two words of Hamlet are "Who's There?" and the first two words of IJ are "I am."? The phrase "Infinite Jest" coming directly from Hamlet? Allusions at best, copying at worst, similarities not at all. The first two words of Mario Puzo's "The Godfather" are "Amerigo Bonasera." Why no Godather-Hamlet comparisons? Come to think of it, they may be more appropriate... Thanks for letting me vent. |
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| Author: | Perpetua [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hamlet similarities |
| Author: | dan [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hamlet similarities |
Hi, I'm the guy whose jaw dropped when I read the Hamlet connection, and I'd just like to say in my own defense that it didn't drop because of my own obtuseness -- which I'm sure is very real, but which I wouldn't call a contributing factor in this case -- but rather from my renewed sense of wonder about the possibilities this book seems to offer. While years of HS English teachers who saw Christ allusions in every fallen hero (and foreshadowing every time a character turned off the lights) have made me suspicious when it looks like people are reading too much into it, if over-reading is part of the fun for you, then by all means have at it. |
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| Author: | ConsiderTheBlogger [ Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hamlet similarities |
Perhaps this is implied in some of these posts, but Hamlet is where the title IJ comes from... "Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy..." (V,i). This is the famous gravedigger scene where Hamlet holds up Yorick's skull. I agree that if this is your first read of IJ, don't bother with the comparative lit. or lit. games... Keeping my head above water was all I could accomplish (if that!) my first time through. Have fun! It's summer! |
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| Author: | storm [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hamlet similarities |
One important link to make between Hamlet and IJ is that both are dealing with the level of certainty we can have that information is true. We know we can be lied to, misinformed, or not have the full story, yet when it comes to books, we assume they will tell us the truth or that what is written is what really happens. Shakespeare rejected this notion with Hamlet by having his main character, Hamlet, wait and ponder and refuse to act because he was uncertain. This stasis was meant to fight off the notion that capital T truth exists in literature. DFW is attempting the same thing with IJ; pay close attention to the sources of information. A lot of stuff funnels through sources that can distort information. For instance, we learn about Hal's fungus eating through Hal's recollection of Orin's telling of his (Orin's) recollection of the event. Does Hal even remember this thing happening? If he doesn't, how can he have any certainty that Orin is 100% correct or that the memory is even real at all? |
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| Author: | dannymears [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hamlet similarities |
| Author: | CodyVanDer [ Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hamlet similarities |
It appears I've been misunderstood. I agree with what you guys are saying. There are a lot of parallels between Hamlet and IJ. Many of them make it funner to read IJ. What I disagree with is a list of 11 things to do to prepare for IJ suggesting we should all brush up on our Hamlet. In the context of such a list it is implied that some parts of IJ are understandable through a knowledge of Hamlet. I am on my second reading of IJ, and I certainly missed things the first time through. I'm probably missing things now. I read the list of suggestions and though "That's why I missed things! I only have a base understanding of Hamlet!" I knew the basics of a king murdered, son visited by ghost, son attempts to avenge the death of his father, everybody ends up dying. But at no point have I caught something in IJ that I missed before and thought "THAT'S why I missed it before! I didn't read Hamlet!" There's no denying that a knowledge of Hamlet will enrich a reading of IJ. The part I thoroughly disagree with is that a reading of IJ will be hindered by a lack of insight into Hamlet. Now, having read this primer before starting IJ, there are all kinds of newcomers assuming that they are having a hard time with IJ because they don't know Hamlet. |
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| Author: | raklaw [ Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hamlet similarities |
Although I had not read this thread yet nor Hamlet for many years, yesterday, while reading the section of IJ on things you learn in rehab (pp. 200-205), I was reminded of Polonius' speech to Laertes (Act I, scene iii). Ron Kershaw |
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| Author: | quinn [ Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hamlet similarities |
Ok, first time reader but pretty far in at this point. The most striking Hamlet similarity to me was Ophelia & the PGOAT. The metempsychosis seems to follow Ophelia's death, dragged down to her watery grave by her clothes. After that, Joelle's reborn as a real person in a way she wasn't before. I feel like the Incandenza brothers are all Hamlet to a certain degree, and they trade off the references that way. But what I suspect the heart of the similarity is just that both works are about choice, and, in one way or another, losing it. |
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