Infinite Summer

Formed in the summer of 2009 to read David Foster Wallace's masterwork "Infinite Jest".
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 Post subject: Orin and Joelle's breakup
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:49 am
Posts: 13
what were the circumstance surrounding the breakup?
Is there any discussion of what happened, other than intimations that the relationship soured after Joelle's acid in the face incident?


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 Post subject: Re: Orin and Joelle's breakup
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:49 pm
Posts: 36
There isn't really. This is the best gathering of facts I could come up with from the summary of the Molly Notkin section in Elegant Complexity:

Notkin says that the Auteur’s son’s excuse
for abandoning his relationship with Madame Psychosis was his
“accusing Madame Psychosis of being sexually enmeshed with . . .
the Auteur.” On pp. 227-8 Notkin “has no idea . . . whether Orin left
because [Jim and Joelle] were lovers or what.” According to n. 80,
Orin knows Jim and Joelle weren’t lovers (but cf. Jim’s role in “the
end [of the relationship]’s start” on p. 297 and Orin’s implied jealousy
when speaking to Hal at the top of p. 250). Near the end of the
section, Notkin attributes Orin’s departure to Joelle’s “traumatic deformity.”


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 Post subject: Re: Orin and Joelle's breakup
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:33 pm
Posts: 42
I wonder a lot about this since neither Joelle or Orin mentions it as the cause of their breakup. Joelle says the cause was that Orin made up a fantasy of her having an affair with JOI (p. 855):
Quote:
The last and pretty much only man Joelle ever let herself admire in a romantic way had left and wouldn't even face up to why, instead erecting for himself a pathetic jealous fantasy about Joelle and his own poor father, whose only interest in Joelle had been first aesthetic and then anti-aesthetic.

From the earlier sections with Joelle, it would seem that she thinks Orin had a large number of unresolved issues re: Avril, and I think this is what she's referring to as the true cause. I.e., the Moms got into his head about this new girl replacing her (the Moms) in his life and he created a reason to break up with Joelle as a result. (It's also possible that, "wouldn't even face up to why," is an awful pun that we're meant to either laugh or groan at.)

Orin doesn't mention that acid at all, and asks Hal weather the P.G.O.A.T. was there for JOI's suicide. That is, he still thinks of her as the PGOAT, not as the erstwhile PGOAT. The only other note on Orin's feelings that I remember is on 567 where the narrator says, "[f]or were there for him just one, now, special and only, the One would be not he or she but what was between them, the obliterating trinity of You and I into We. Orin felt that once and has never recovered, and will never again."

(A note re: "whose only interest in Joelle had been first aesthetic and then anti-aesthetic." This is very curious since on p. 743, Jim's reaction to Joelle's aesthetics is, "the director seemed more than able to resist 'using' Joelle in any capacity ... Jim told her later she'd seemed to conventionally, commercially pretty to consider using in any of that period's work." Then on p. 746, "Avril urged Dr. Incandenza to find a way to include Joelle in a production." That is, his initial interest wasn't aesthetic at all and he put her in the movies in part to please Avril (who I'm guessing was urging him at Orin's urging, since Orin wanted JOI to put her in a movie). And when JOI does put her in a movie, she's either veiled, a corpse, or deformed. Then very soon after the alleged acid deformation, she appears unveiled in IJ which indicates a certain level of psychological strength or hideous self-loathing on her part. Being willing to star in a movie that features extended closeups of her freshly scarred face.)

_________________
"Because so that was let's see."


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 Post subject: Re: Orin and Joelle's breakup
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:00 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:46 pm
Posts: 23
levingard wrote:
Then very soon after the alleged acid deformation, she appears unveiled in IJ

p 939-940, from her interrogation by Steeply:

Quote:
"Not exactly. Not exactly veiled."

...

"My face wasn't important. You never got the sense it was meant to be captured realistically by this lens."


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 Post subject: Re: Orin and Joelle's breakup
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:29 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:49 am
Posts: 13
I really appreciate your fantastic insight!
Thank you very much.
i really enjoyed reading your posts.


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