Infinite Summer

Formed in the summer of 2009 to read David Foster Wallace's masterwork "Infinite Jest".
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 Post subject: Re: End of Book - Hal/Orin - Spoilers
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:50 pm
Posts: 71
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I thought Orin was just referring to the "Swiss" hand model, his current Subject. Interesting thought that he could have been talking about JvD or Avril.

Or perhaps he was talking about Steepley, who had been around asking the same kinds of questions.


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 Post subject: Re: End of Book - Hal/Orin - Spoilers
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:51 am
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"Does anyone think that Orin in the glass and then the cockroaches rushing in is reminiscent of "1984" and the scene where the face mask with the rats is used to torture Winston and he says "Do it to Julia!" Was Orin referring to the Moms, JvD, who????"

Now that you mention it, yes, it does remind me of the "1984" rats and Winston scene.

I'm not sure exactly what Orin meant, though.


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 Post subject: Re: End of Book - Hal/Orin - Spoilers
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:00 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Salt Lake City and no, I'm not one, either.
In the last paragraph of the section that ends on page 972, the tables have turned for Orin. Now he is the Subject. It is mentioned parenthically that Mlle. Luria P--------, his technical interviewer, 'was not really Swiss,' which led me to believe that she posed as the Swiss hand model and perhaps had gleaned, through conversation, Orin's deepest fear.

As for his shouts of, 'Do it to her! Do it to her!,' I assumed Orin was referring to Avril, for no other reason than that he detests her so.


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 Post subject: Re: End of Book - Hal/Orin - Spoilers
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:17 pm 
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The thing I've never been able to figure out about Orin's cry of "Do it to her!" is what level of reference HE thinks he is making. From his conversations with Hal, among other things, we know him to be a damned well-educated guy, even if not on Hal's level, so I can totally imagine him yelling this fully intending it as both a cry for leniance/mercy and a pathetically ironic attempt at a witticism on his situation by quoting "1984." Since he is also, pretty clearly, not as into honest introspection as Hal or, even moreso, Gately, I could see his attempt at weird ironic quotation as being c/w his character and with DFW's thoughts on Irony, which have been much discussed here and on the main IS site recently. Actually, I guess I have figured it out: I can't read the scene without picturing him both breaking down and making a bad referential joke at the same time, but I'm curious if anyone else sees the reading this way.


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 Post subject: Re: End of Book - Hal/Orin - Spoilers
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:01 pm
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The DMZ came from Sixties Bob, who we find out bought stolen goods from one of Gately's friends.

We know that Orin constantly has horrible nightmares - don't we hear about how he wakes up in a heavy sweat every day? - so I've been thinking that maybe Orin's final scene is yet another stress nightmare, throwing together the people who he's seen around that day, his phobia of roaches, his weird relation with his mother, and the plot mechanic from 1984.


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 Post subject: Re: End of Book - Hal/Orin - Spoilers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:44 am
Posts: 12
I think Hals experiencing more than just delayed GRIEVING. He may be experiencing ALL
delayed emotion.


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 Post subject: Re: End of Book - Hal/Orin - Spoilers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 6
evamat wrote:
I'd never thought to look at Hal's behavior/affect in YG as a delayed-onset grieving of his father's death.

I don't think I agree with that, since really the first we see of Hal's communication problem comes from Himself's belief that Hal wasn't talking even when he (Hal) was.


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 Post subject: Re: End of Book - Hal/Orin - Spoilers
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:07 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:52 am
Posts: 21
THANK YOU, gagoots!


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 Post subject: Re: End of Book - Hal/Orin - Spoilers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:45 am
Posts: 13
this may have been mentioned already, but i just noticed a real parallel between the 'fate' of orin and the fate of hal. they both become the victims of their greatest fears- for orin, it's roaches, and for hal, it's being unable to communicate. both of these fears are foreshadowed in different ways, orin becomes like the roaches in the tumblers, etc. this is obvious. but i'm bringing it up because i (and others) have wondered about himself's fears of the young hal being unable to communicate, and how to reconcile that part of hal's history with what eventually happens to him- if what eventually happens is the result of DMZ, a dosed toothbrush, marijuana withdrawal, or whatever, then it can't be directly connected to hal's youth, but it can't be coincidence either, right? i'm thinking that the early episodes from hal's life, like the professional conversationalist section, demonstrate how these themes are with him from early childhood- that even though they manifest in an unexpected way, the fears and issues one has often stay with one- even if himself's fears are not connected at all to the ingestion of DMZ or a dosed toothbrush or whatever it was.


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