<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Damn All Thick-Headed Dutchmen! (And Englishmen and Americans)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/156/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/156</link>
	<description>The vampire novel that sired them all</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:01:23 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Dracula on the Mat &#171; Infinite Zombies</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/156/comment-page-1#comment-244</link>
		<dc:creator>Dracula on the Mat &#171; Infinite Zombies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=156#comment-244</guid>
		<description>[...] followed by exclamation  points are piling up in the margins of my copy.  As Claire wrote in her main page post  for Oct. 21, damn them!  The whole dismissal of Mina after they couldn&#8217;t praise her enough [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] followed by exclamation  points are piling up in the margins of my copy.  As Claire wrote in her main page post  for Oct. 21, damn them!  The whole dismissal of Mina after they couldn&#8217;t praise her enough [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/156/comment-page-1#comment-241</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=156#comment-241</guid>
		<description>That’s great you’re reading the version with a foreword by Joseph Valente, and I will once again plug his book Dracula’s Crypt: Bram Stoker, Irishness, and the Question of Blood as perhaps the best critique of literature I’ve ever read.  In it he explains the actions of these characters, each as an allegorical representative of some sliver of society, in both a political framework as well as the framework of Stoker’s psychology.  The actions of the men in this scene are best understood when considering that they are each in a doppelganger relationship with Dracula.  Dracula does not cast a reflection or a shadow because he IS the reflection and the shadow of each character in this novel.  Even the carters that Jonathan bribes to track down the boxes all have a supernatural thirst.  Every character is complicit in the vampirization.  The vampire hunters, then, can all be seen as vampire helpers in their own way.  Nearly every effort they take serves more to aid the Undead than to thwart it.  The transformations they are going through as characters are the pendulum swings along the arc of a doppelganger.  They are becoming what they pursue.  The clearest indicator of this, to me anyway, is Jonathan.  He begins the novel as a fairly ineffective, soft, acquiescing youth and throughout his ordeals becomes older, harder, sterner, more remote, and withdrawn.  His progression in physical appearance alone is the reverse of Dracula.  

That Dracula and Mina share the marriage bed, and enact a ritual reenactment of the two-become-one marriage/consummation activities we assume Jonathan and she have shared, only furthers this doppelganger relationship.  Remember, she is complicit in her victimization here when she says “I did not want to hinder him.”  After his speech, an inverse of wedding vows, he compels her to drink his blood in return.  She has the choice of suffocating there, but instead chooses to drink, chooses to marry him.  This action not only reinforces the marriage motif, but is also an inverse of her major role in the group as a mother.  By drinking from his breast she chooses to be his child, solidifying the role she’s now already been initiated to as her protectors have been treating her like a child.  However, by his drinking from her, she retains some of that maternal nature which has been her strongest characteristic yet.  Even in the midst of this horrible scene, she still mothers Jonathan when she says “Do not fret, dear…”

At the end of this marriage/consummation/rape/nursing scene, we see the sun beginning to rise.  This is a time of day along with noon and sunset discussed by Van Helsing to be when vampires can change their forms.  Here we see Harker change to a white haired man with a deep stern grey countenance, a mirror image of the man he met in Transylvania.  This is one of my favorite scenes ever written, and has been since I was in high school.  Now that I see Dracula isn’t an external force of doom, but rather and internal force of each of these characters externalized in a doppelganger, I love it all the more.  It makes it so much darker to think that instead of merely being caught off guard and victimized by some monster, that instead you beget the monster and are complicit in your own victimization.  How do you destroy something when all your actions, whether to destroy it or not, aid it by your complicity?  If the monster is your own dark reflection, how can you destroy it without destroying yourself?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s great you’re reading the version with a foreword by Joseph Valente, and I will once again plug his book Dracula’s Crypt: Bram Stoker, Irishness, and the Question of Blood as perhaps the best critique of literature I’ve ever read.  In it he explains the actions of these characters, each as an allegorical representative of some sliver of society, in both a political framework as well as the framework of Stoker’s psychology.  The actions of the men in this scene are best understood when considering that they are each in a doppelganger relationship with Dracula.  Dracula does not cast a reflection or a shadow because he IS the reflection and the shadow of each character in this novel.  Even the carters that Jonathan bribes to track down the boxes all have a supernatural thirst.  Every character is complicit in the vampirization.  The vampire hunters, then, can all be seen as vampire helpers in their own way.  Nearly every effort they take serves more to aid the Undead than to thwart it.  The transformations they are going through as characters are the pendulum swings along the arc of a doppelganger.  They are becoming what they pursue.  The clearest indicator of this, to me anyway, is Jonathan.  He begins the novel as a fairly ineffective, soft, acquiescing youth and throughout his ordeals becomes older, harder, sterner, more remote, and withdrawn.  His progression in physical appearance alone is the reverse of Dracula.  </p>
<p>That Dracula and Mina share the marriage bed, and enact a ritual reenactment of the two-become-one marriage/consummation activities we assume Jonathan and she have shared, only furthers this doppelganger relationship.  Remember, she is complicit in her victimization here when she says “I did not want to hinder him.”  After his speech, an inverse of wedding vows, he compels her to drink his blood in return.  She has the choice of suffocating there, but instead chooses to drink, chooses to marry him.  This action not only reinforces the marriage motif, but is also an inverse of her major role in the group as a mother.  By drinking from his breast she chooses to be his child, solidifying the role she’s now already been initiated to as her protectors have been treating her like a child.  However, by his drinking from her, she retains some of that maternal nature which has been her strongest characteristic yet.  Even in the midst of this horrible scene, she still mothers Jonathan when she says “Do not fret, dear…”</p>
<p>At the end of this marriage/consummation/rape/nursing scene, we see the sun beginning to rise.  This is a time of day along with noon and sunset discussed by Van Helsing to be when vampires can change their forms.  Here we see Harker change to a white haired man with a deep stern grey countenance, a mirror image of the man he met in Transylvania.  This is one of my favorite scenes ever written, and has been since I was in high school.  Now that I see Dracula isn’t an external force of doom, but rather and internal force of each of these characters externalized in a doppelganger, I love it all the more.  It makes it so much darker to think that instead of merely being caught off guard and victimized by some monster, that instead you beget the monster and are complicit in your own victimization.  How do you destroy something when all your actions, whether to destroy it or not, aid it by your complicity?  If the monster is your own dark reflection, how can you destroy it without destroying yourself?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patti</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/156/comment-page-1#comment-238</link>
		<dc:creator>Patti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=156#comment-238</guid>
		<description>I was happy to read others had a problem with the men folk.  They literally put the brains to bed.  Ship these guys a case of V8.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was happy to read others had a problem with the men folk.  They literally put the brains to bed.  Ship these guys a case of V8.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/156/comment-page-1#comment-237</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=156#comment-237</guid>
		<description>I think this is a symptom of a Victorian author writing for a Victorian audience: it could be that the pause outside the bedroom door for what is,really, a ridiculous bow to decorum was to reiterate to the tame audience that there is just cause for such shocking behavior. Perhaps this acknowledgment tempered some criticism for Stoker. Moreover, it also heightens the contrast between the mannerly action of the gentlemen and the scene witnessed upon entering the room.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is a symptom of a Victorian author writing for a Victorian audience: it could be that the pause outside the bedroom door for what is,really, a ridiculous bow to decorum was to reiterate to the tame audience that there is just cause for such shocking behavior. Perhaps this acknowledgment tempered some criticism for Stoker. Moreover, it also heightens the contrast between the mannerly action of the gentlemen and the scene witnessed upon entering the room.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Prolixian</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/156/comment-page-1#comment-235</link>
		<dc:creator>Prolixian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=156#comment-235</guid>
		<description>I agreed up until the point when they had witnessed Lucy&#039;s transformation and had reviewed all of the collected notes.  By the time they exclude Mina, all of the essential facts about Dracula&#039;s supernatural abilities have been shown and accepted.  Also, Mina&#039;s symptoms are so similar to Lucy&#039;s that it seems a bit thick to not consider that it might be vamping.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agreed up until the point when they had witnessed Lucy&#8217;s transformation and had reviewed all of the collected notes.  By the time they exclude Mina, all of the essential facts about Dracula&#8217;s supernatural abilities have been shown and accepted.  Also, Mina&#8217;s symptoms are so similar to Lucy&#8217;s that it seems a bit thick to not consider that it might be vamping.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Prolixian</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/156/comment-page-1#comment-234</link>
		<dc:creator>Prolixian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=156#comment-234</guid>
		<description>I think it was because Seward&#039;s home and the asylum are all part of one big house, and Renfield was persuaded to invite Dracula into the house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it was because Seward&#8217;s home and the asylum are all part of one big house, and Renfield was persuaded to invite Dracula into the house.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Maire</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/156/comment-page-1#comment-233</link>
		<dc:creator>Maire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 03:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=156#comment-233</guid>
		<description>Wow, I just wrote some of the exact same things on my blog....I agree with what everyone says about how asinine all the men are acting by making Mina sleep all the time. 

Although I was confused by one thing, and I&#039;m posting this question here because maybe you folks could help out. Why can Dracula get into Mina’s room? I thought that Van Helsing said that vampires can only enter homes that they are invited into. I was also confused about this with Lucy, but since Drac sucked her blood out in the graveyard first, I figured that he must have had enough power over Lucy that she invited him into her room at night. But Mina certainly never did such a thing. So how does Dracula get in? Does it have something to do with the fact that she’s staying at Dr. Seward’s house, which is attached to the asylum, which is also maybe attached to Drac’s house, so it’s like one big campus?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I just wrote some of the exact same things on my blog&#8230;.I agree with what everyone says about how asinine all the men are acting by making Mina sleep all the time. </p>
<p>Although I was confused by one thing, and I&#8217;m posting this question here because maybe you folks could help out. Why can Dracula get into Mina’s room? I thought that Van Helsing said that vampires can only enter homes that they are invited into. I was also confused about this with Lucy, but since Drac sucked her blood out in the graveyard first, I figured that he must have had enough power over Lucy that she invited him into her room at night. But Mina certainly never did such a thing. So how does Dracula get in? Does it have something to do with the fact that she’s staying at Dr. Seward’s house, which is attached to the asylum, which is also maybe attached to Drac’s house, so it’s like one big campus?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dracula: Pleading Insanity at Wood-Tang.com</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/156/comment-page-1#comment-232</link>
		<dc:creator>Dracula: Pleading Insanity at Wood-Tang.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 03:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=156#comment-232</guid>
		<description>[...] maybe we shouldn&#8217;t be so hard on the boys for seeming so dim-witted. It would be pretty difficult to accept that there is some mustachioed, shape-shifting creep [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] maybe we shouldn&#8217;t be so hard on the boys for seeming so dim-witted. It would be pretty difficult to accept that there is some mustachioed, shape-shifting creep [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Prolixian</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/156/comment-page-1#comment-231</link>
		<dc:creator>Prolixian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 02:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=156#comment-231</guid>
		<description>I am posting my comment from the forums here because it&#039;s about my frustration with the same developments:

These guys decide that Mina must be excluded from further vampire tracking because it will be too alarming to her. While they are dithering around, she seems to take ill, appearing more and more pale and listless, especially upon awakening. Despite having seen Lucy die after exhibiting IDENTICAL symptoms, and despite the fact that Dracula lives NEXT DOOR, the fact that there might be a vampire problem with Mina doesn&#039;t cross their minds. They keep sending her off to bed alone while they discuss their business. 

When they finally get incontrovertible evidence from Renfield that Dracula has gotten to Mina, and they know that Mina is at that very moment her bedroom and that Dracula is out and about (it being night), they rush to her door and have the following exchange:

Quote:
&quot;Outside the Harkers&#039; door we paused. Art and Quincey held back, and the latter said, &quot;Should we disturb her?&quot;

&quot;We must,&quot; said Van Helsing grimly. &quot;If the door be locked, I shall break it in.&quot;

&quot;May it not frighten her terribly? It is unusual to break into a lady&#039;s room!&quot;&quot;


The lack of judgment exhibited by these characters throughout the book is astounding.  That Dr. Seward seems ready to release Renfield after each rational conversation, despite having witnessed weeks of alternating rational and mad behavior is but one example.  I hope Mina recovers and talks some sense into them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am posting my comment from the forums here because it&#8217;s about my frustration with the same developments:</p>
<p>These guys decide that Mina must be excluded from further vampire tracking because it will be too alarming to her. While they are dithering around, she seems to take ill, appearing more and more pale and listless, especially upon awakening. Despite having seen Lucy die after exhibiting IDENTICAL symptoms, and despite the fact that Dracula lives NEXT DOOR, the fact that there might be a vampire problem with Mina doesn&#8217;t cross their minds. They keep sending her off to bed alone while they discuss their business. </p>
<p>When they finally get incontrovertible evidence from Renfield that Dracula has gotten to Mina, and they know that Mina is at that very moment her bedroom and that Dracula is out and about (it being night), they rush to her door and have the following exchange:</p>
<p>Quote:<br />
&#8220;Outside the Harkers&#8217; door we paused. Art and Quincey held back, and the latter said, &#8220;Should we disturb her?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;We must,&#8221; said Van Helsing grimly. &#8220;If the door be locked, I shall break it in.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;May it not frighten her terribly? It is unusual to break into a lady&#8217;s room!&#8221;"</p>
<p>The lack of judgment exhibited by these characters throughout the book is astounding.  That Dr. Seward seems ready to release Renfield after each rational conversation, despite having witnessed weeks of alternating rational and mad behavior is but one example.  I hope Mina recovers and talks some sense into them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Victoria</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/156/comment-page-1#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>Victoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=156#comment-230</guid>
		<description>and by 13 I mean chapter 18</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and by 13 I mean chapter 18</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
