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	<title>Comments on: Serpents and Bats</title>
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	<description>The vampire novel that sired them all</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:01:23 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/111/comment-page-1#comment-161</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=111#comment-161</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But speaking to Baldwin’s point about The Bomb Theory, I was thinking how utterly terrifying this section would be, if we didn’t know anything about vampires.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think this knowledge defuses the dread and enhances it at the same time.  On one hand, we all know what vampires do so it&#039;s more or less a foregone conclusion, but on the other hand WE ALL KNOW WHAT VAMPIRES DO, SO SOMEBODY NAIL THE FREAKING WINDOW SHUT!  I agree, it&#039;s a shame we can&#039;t experience this revelation for the first time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But speaking to Baldwin’s point about The Bomb Theory, I was thinking how utterly terrifying this section would be, if we didn’t know anything about vampires.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think this knowledge defuses the dread and enhances it at the same time.  On one hand, we all know what vampires do so it&#8217;s more or less a foregone conclusion, but on the other hand WE ALL KNOW WHAT VAMPIRES DO, SO SOMEBODY NAIL THE FREAKING WINDOW SHUT!  I agree, it&#8217;s a shame we can&#8217;t experience this revelation for the first time.</p>
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		<title>By: matt</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/111/comment-page-1#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 22:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=111#comment-154</guid>
		<description>But what&#039;s interesting is that the draining of fluids by nighttime suitor causes her to have a sort of contact with all her would-be daytime beaux. And then some, if we add Van Helsing. I was fascinated by the fact that no one wanted to tell Arthur he wasn&#039;t the only one who&#039;d done his duty as &#039;a man&#039;. You&#039;re absolutely right: the sexual politics that emerge in this section are for me the dominant paradigm. That&#039;s true for both Lucy and Mina, and it continues to be at the forefront of everyone&#039;s minds up through where I am (chapter 18).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But what&#8217;s interesting is that the draining of fluids by nighttime suitor causes her to have a sort of contact with all her would-be daytime beaux. And then some, if we add Van Helsing. I was fascinated by the fact that no one wanted to tell Arthur he wasn&#8217;t the only one who&#8217;d done his duty as &#8216;a man&#8217;. You&#8217;re absolutely right: the sexual politics that emerge in this section are for me the dominant paradigm. That&#8217;s true for both Lucy and Mina, and it continues to be at the forefront of everyone&#8217;s minds up through where I am (chapter 18).</p>
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		<title>By: mjdemo</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/111/comment-page-1#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>mjdemo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=111#comment-149</guid>
		<description>The whole Lucy section is set apart and really quite different than the Harker section - the difference seems to be in Victorian sexual politics.  By day, Lucy is wooed by 3 upstanding men, and she chooses the most upstanding of the three to become engaged to. By night, she is &quot;kissed&quot; by another kind of suitor who leaves her exhausted and forgetful.  There are all kinds of undercurrents of addiction and illicit desires going on. The men in her life are fighting over her blood and body.  I can see how vampires can become a stand-in for subversive memes of all kinds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole Lucy section is set apart and really quite different than the Harker section &#8211; the difference seems to be in Victorian sexual politics.  By day, Lucy is wooed by 3 upstanding men, and she chooses the most upstanding of the three to become engaged to. By night, she is &#8220;kissed&#8221; by another kind of suitor who leaves her exhausted and forgetful.  There are all kinds of undercurrents of addiction and illicit desires going on. The men in her life are fighting over her blood and body.  I can see how vampires can become a stand-in for subversive memes of all kinds.</p>
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		<title>By: kevinfanning</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/111/comment-page-1#comment-146</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinfanning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=111#comment-146</guid>
		<description>Yes. I found Van Helsing&#039;s &quot;Can&#039;t tell you yet! Hang in there!&quot; irritating as well. I&#039;m sure an argument could be made about the hubris of the scientist contributing to Lucy&#039;s downfall, or something, but it seemed a maddening plot device to me. 

But speaking to Baldwin&#039;s point about The Bomb Theory, I was thinking how utterly terrifying this section would be, if we didn&#039;t know anything about vampires. There are holes on her neck and she keeps losing ALL of her blood? WTF? I mean we don&#039;t actually know that&#039;s what Dracula does yet, right? What a horrifying revelation that would be, the first time.

So I agree somewhat with the Bomb Theory, in the sense that we know he&#039;s a bad guy, but I don&#039;t think we really know he&#039;s a bomb, or how destructive of one, apart from all the vampire baggage we bring to the novel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes. I found Van Helsing&#8217;s &#8220;Can&#8217;t tell you yet! Hang in there!&#8221; irritating as well. I&#8217;m sure an argument could be made about the hubris of the scientist contributing to Lucy&#8217;s downfall, or something, but it seemed a maddening plot device to me. </p>
<p>But speaking to Baldwin&#8217;s point about The Bomb Theory, I was thinking how utterly terrifying this section would be, if we didn&#8217;t know anything about vampires. There are holes on her neck and she keeps losing ALL of her blood? WTF? I mean we don&#8217;t actually know that&#8217;s what Dracula does yet, right? What a horrifying revelation that would be, the first time.</p>
<p>So I agree somewhat with the Bomb Theory, in the sense that we know he&#8217;s a bad guy, but I don&#8217;t think we really know he&#8217;s a bomb, or how destructive of one, apart from all the vampire baggage we bring to the novel.</p>
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		<title>By: matt</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/111/comment-page-1#comment-145</link>
		<dc:creator>matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 08:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=111#comment-145</guid>
		<description>I can take this line of argument re: Harker who is (at least largely) in control of his faculties when coming to understand Dracula&#039;s nature, and the contrast between the prohibition on the tree and the remainder of the castle is a nice one, but I don&#039;t see how this bears out in the case of Lucy who has next-to-no understanding of what is going on. Given that she wakes up every morning with the vague recollection of something gone wrong, her regret centres on what she doesn&#039;t know, not what she does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can take this line of argument re: Harker who is (at least largely) in control of his faculties when coming to understand Dracula&#8217;s nature, and the contrast between the prohibition on the tree and the remainder of the castle is a nice one, but I don&#8217;t see how this bears out in the case of Lucy who has next-to-no understanding of what is going on. Given that she wakes up every morning with the vague recollection of something gone wrong, her regret centres on what she doesn&#8217;t know, not what she does.</p>
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		<title>By: adamgn</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/111/comment-page-1#comment-144</link>
		<dc:creator>adamgn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 06:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=111#comment-144</guid>
		<description>On Stoker&#039;s use of suspense I agree with you for the most part.

However, I have become so maddeningly irritated at Van Helsing&#039;s refusal to tell anyone about Lucy&#039;s condition.  Why must everyone stay in suspense?  We know he couldn&#039;t tell her mother because of her heart ailment (which seemingly everyone in the Kingdom knew about except Lucy), but why not Dr. Seward and others.  

It seems that had others known some simple theories and thoughts of Van Helsing, some of the harm that befell Lucy could have been prevented.  Knowing that Lucy has a sickness and knowing that someone is coming into her room every night are two quite different scenarios.

This fact bothers me to no end.  Is this Stoker using &quot;suspense&quot; on us again, or is this more a feature of Victorian behavior?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Stoker&#8217;s use of suspense I agree with you for the most part.</p>
<p>However, I have become so maddeningly irritated at Van Helsing&#8217;s refusal to tell anyone about Lucy&#8217;s condition.  Why must everyone stay in suspense?  We know he couldn&#8217;t tell her mother because of her heart ailment (which seemingly everyone in the Kingdom knew about except Lucy), but why not Dr. Seward and others.  </p>
<p>It seems that had others known some simple theories and thoughts of Van Helsing, some of the harm that befell Lucy could have been prevented.  Knowing that Lucy has a sickness and knowing that someone is coming into her room every night are two quite different scenarios.</p>
<p>This fact bothers me to no end.  Is this Stoker using &#8220;suspense&#8221; on us again, or is this more a feature of Victorian behavior?</p>
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		<title>By: Todeswalzer</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/111/comment-page-1#comment-143</link>
		<dc:creator>Todeswalzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 06:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=111#comment-143</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Horror is often given the short-shrift by the literati, but many of the ideas explored in the genre are among the most profound. ... If Harker’s discovery had been more along the lines of &quot;oh god I am forty-seven and haven’t achieved my life goals&quot; rather than &quot;uhhh the dude who served me dinner is crawling down the castle wall&quot;, maybe Dracula would receive a bit more respect.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I agree with you in one sense, but disagree with you in another. I think that on some level all good literature aims at confronting our most profound fears; it&#039;s just that the horror genre goes about doing so in a more naked and direct way. The risk, of course, is that the author may go too far over the top. Consider horror films as an example. In a make-believe world where office-worker-by-day-secret-cannibal-by-night-types perform unspeakable acts on human corpses in subterranean lairs while skinning and lobotomizing their victims alive in order to provide themselves with new winter attire, the viewer&#039;s credulity gets stretched so far that s/he&#039;s left wondering whether in fact a comedy hasn&#039;t been rolling the whole time. (Just think: when was the last time you watched a horror film but didn&#039;t laugh?) It just isn&#039;t believable. 

Indeed, it&#039;s the mundane and the banal that makes the best material for true horror. I mean, really, what could be more horrifying -- and I mean that in the most literal sense of the word -- than your first scenario: facing the prospect that one&#039;s life has been a total failure?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Horror is often given the short-shrift by the literati, but many of the ideas explored in the genre are among the most profound. &#8230; If Harker’s discovery had been more along the lines of &#8220;oh god I am forty-seven and haven’t achieved my life goals&#8221; rather than &#8220;uhhh the dude who served me dinner is crawling down the castle wall&#8221;, maybe Dracula would receive a bit more respect.</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree with you in one sense, but disagree with you in another. I think that on some level all good literature aims at confronting our most profound fears; it&#8217;s just that the horror genre goes about doing so in a more naked and direct way. The risk, of course, is that the author may go too far over the top. Consider horror films as an example. In a make-believe world where office-worker-by-day-secret-cannibal-by-night-types perform unspeakable acts on human corpses in subterranean lairs while skinning and lobotomizing their victims alive in order to provide themselves with new winter attire, the viewer&#8217;s credulity gets stretched so far that s/he&#8217;s left wondering whether in fact a comedy hasn&#8217;t been rolling the whole time. (Just think: when was the last time you watched a horror film but didn&#8217;t laugh?) It just isn&#8217;t believable. </p>
<p>Indeed, it&#8217;s the mundane and the banal that makes the best material for true horror. I mean, really, what could be more horrifying &#8212; and I mean that in the most literal sense of the word &#8212; than your first scenario: facing the prospect that one&#8217;s life has been a total failure?</p>
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		<title>By: ariel</title>
		<link>http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/archives/111/comment-page-1#comment-141</link>
		<dc:creator>ariel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 03:56:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infinitesummer.org/dracula/?p=111#comment-141</guid>
		<description>&quot;If Harker’s discovery had been more along the lines of “oh god I am forty-seven and haven’t achieved my life goals” rather than “uhhh the dude who just served me dinner is crawling down a castle wall like a lizard”, maybe Dracula would receive a bit more respect.&quot;

ha!  (snort)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If Harker’s discovery had been more along the lines of “oh god I am forty-seven and haven’t achieved my life goals” rather than “uhhh the dude who just served me dinner is crawling down a castle wall like a lizard”, maybe Dracula would receive a bit more respect.&#8221;</p>
<p>ha!  (snort)</p>
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